1
00:00:39,830 --> 00:00:16,100
[Music]

2
00:00:43,270 --> 00:00:40,709
a ufo

3
00:00:44,229 --> 00:00:43,280
in lumberton north carolina by charles

4
00:00:45,990 --> 00:00:44,239
lear

5
00:00:48,150 --> 00:00:46,000
it is often the case with ufo

6
00:00:50,389 --> 00:00:48,160
investigators that once they get to an

7
00:00:53,270 --> 00:00:50,399
area where a ufo has been reported

8
00:00:55,029 --> 00:00:53,280
the ufo is long gone and all they can do

9
00:00:57,189 --> 00:00:55,039
is interview witnesses

10
00:00:58,389 --> 00:00:57,199
this is important as a means of creating

11
00:01:00,310 --> 00:00:58,399
a record of the case

12
00:01:02,229 --> 00:01:00,320
that can be referred to by future

13
00:01:04,549 --> 00:01:02,239
investigators and researchers

14
00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:04,559
but occasionally an investigator gets

15
00:01:07,590 --> 00:01:05,280
the chance

16
00:01:09,030 --> 00:01:07,600
to be a witness and actually observe

17
00:01:10,950 --> 00:01:09,040
what had been reported

18
00:01:13,270 --> 00:01:10,960
this happened to investigator lee

19
00:01:13,910 --> 00:01:13,280
spiegel who's looking into a series of

20
00:01:16,950 --> 00:01:13,920
sightings

21
00:01:19,710 --> 00:01:16,960
by as many as 30 police officers and 50

22
00:01:21,190 --> 00:01:19,720
civilians in lumberton north carolina in

23
00:01:23,590 --> 00:01:21,200
1975.

24
00:01:25,590 --> 00:01:23,600
spiegel submitted a report on the case

25
00:01:26,230 --> 00:01:25,600
to the director of the center for ufo

26
00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:26,240
studies

27
00:01:29,429 --> 00:01:28,320
and former project blue book scientific

28
00:01:32,069 --> 00:01:29,439
consultant j

29
00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:32,079
alan heineck the case file resides in

30
00:01:35,830 --> 00:01:32,960
the archives

31
00:01:37,429 --> 00:01:35,840
housed by david marlar in new mexico

32
00:01:39,749 --> 00:01:37,439
along with spiegel's report

33
00:01:41,749 --> 00:01:39,759
and contemporary newspaper clippings

34
00:01:42,789 --> 00:01:41,759
there is also a series of paper slips in

35
00:01:45,350 --> 00:01:42,799
the file folder

36
00:01:48,149 --> 00:01:45,360
containing call information presumably

37
00:01:49,990 --> 00:01:48,159
filled out at a kufos ufo call center

38
00:01:52,469 --> 00:01:50,000
if anyone can confirm this please

39
00:01:54,870 --> 00:01:52,479
comment according to spiegel's report

40
00:01:56,069 --> 00:01:54,880
a violent thunderstorm in the area ended

41
00:01:59,350 --> 00:01:56,079
at 1 35

42
00:02:02,069 --> 00:01:59,360
a.m on april 3 1975.

43
00:02:03,350 --> 00:02:02,079
a call slip in the case file has the

44
00:02:05,910 --> 00:02:03,360
information that at 1

45
00:02:07,910 --> 00:02:05,920
45 a.m sheriff ron thompson was

46
00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:07,920
monitoring the radio while working as a

47
00:02:10,630 --> 00:02:09,679
dispatcher at the robeson county

48
00:02:12,790 --> 00:02:10,640
sheriff's office

49
00:02:14,470 --> 00:02:12,800
in lumberton when the first report of a

50
00:02:16,869 --> 00:02:14,480
strange object came in

51
00:02:17,910 --> 00:02:16,879
it was seen by robeson county officer

52
00:02:20,550 --> 00:02:17,920
phil stanton

53
00:02:21,190 --> 00:02:20,560
and then by two officers from saint paul

54
00:02:23,750 --> 00:02:21,200
all three

55
00:02:25,589 --> 00:02:23,760
describe the object as v-shaped with red

56
00:02:28,470 --> 00:02:25,599
blue and clear lights

57
00:02:29,110 --> 00:02:28,480
a slip with 5 15 am filled in for the

58
00:02:31,509 --> 00:02:29,120
time

59
00:02:32,630 --> 00:02:31,519
has the information that two samson

60
00:02:34,550 --> 00:02:32,640
county officers

61
00:02:36,949 --> 00:02:34,560
saw a similar object that put a

62
00:02:39,430 --> 00:02:36,959
spotlight on them as it moved off

63
00:02:40,710 --> 00:02:39,440
one of the officers clocked it at 200

64
00:02:42,550 --> 00:02:40,720
miles per hour

65
00:02:45,030 --> 00:02:42,560
it appears that there was a full-fledged

66
00:02:48,390 --> 00:02:45,040
flap after 10 pm that night

67
00:02:50,229 --> 00:02:48,400
because a slip with 10 15 to 10 30 pm

68
00:02:51,589 --> 00:02:50,239
filled in for the time has the

69
00:02:53,910 --> 00:02:51,599
information on the back

70
00:02:54,790 --> 00:02:53,920
that officers from four different police

71
00:02:57,190 --> 00:02:54,800
departments

72
00:02:57,990 --> 00:02:57,200
and 50 citizens reported seeing

73
00:03:00,309 --> 00:02:58,000
something

74
00:03:02,309 --> 00:03:00,319
according to spiegel's report thompson

75
00:03:03,190 --> 00:03:02,319
called kufos to let them know about the

76
00:03:04,949 --> 00:03:03,200
sightings

77
00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:04,959
thompson said that he didn't share the

78
00:03:08,149 --> 00:03:07,120
descriptions of the object with any

79
00:03:10,070 --> 00:03:08,159
other officers

80
00:03:11,910 --> 00:03:10,080
and was amazed by the similarities

81
00:03:14,470 --> 00:03:11,920
between all the reports

82
00:03:16,869 --> 00:03:14,480
on the evening of april 3rd a report was

83
00:03:18,710 --> 00:03:16,879
sent out over the upi newswire

84
00:03:20,149 --> 00:03:18,720
which caught the attention of someone at

85
00:03:21,990 --> 00:03:20,159
the national star

86
00:03:23,270 --> 00:03:22,000
spiegel was asked if he would be willing

87
00:03:25,110 --> 00:03:23,280
to fly to lumberton

88
00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:25,120
with one of the reporters and cover the

89
00:03:29,030 --> 00:03:27,040
situation firsthand

90
00:03:30,789 --> 00:03:29,040
spiegel discussed the matter with heinek

91
00:03:32,630 --> 00:03:30,799
and then headed for lumberton

92
00:03:34,869 --> 00:03:32,640
seriously wondering what it was that

93
00:03:37,990 --> 00:03:34,879
made so many law enforcement people

94
00:03:39,910 --> 00:03:38,000
begin to believe in ufos spiegel wrote

95
00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:39,920
that he surveyed the area from the air

96
00:03:43,670 --> 00:03:41,040
as he was landing

97
00:03:44,789 --> 00:03:43,680
and saw it consisted of forests swamps

98
00:03:46,630 --> 00:03:44,799
lakes canals

99
00:03:49,270 --> 00:03:46,640
and that the atlantic ocean was to the

100
00:03:51,670 --> 00:03:49,280
east he was determined to find a logical

101
00:03:54,470 --> 00:03:51,680
explanation for what were reports from

102
00:03:56,470 --> 00:03:54,480
credible and reliable witnesses he got

103
00:03:57,750 --> 00:03:56,480
to the robeson county sheriff's office

104
00:04:00,390 --> 00:03:57,760
on april 4th at 9

105
00:04:02,390 --> 00:04:00,400
15 pm and there were reports coming into

106
00:04:05,190 --> 00:04:02,400
the dispatcher at that time from

107
00:04:07,190 --> 00:04:05,200
citizens and police officers a statement

108
00:04:09,350 --> 00:04:07,200
from the title page of the report

109
00:04:10,550 --> 00:04:09,360
informs the reader that the material is

110
00:04:12,949 --> 00:04:10,560
taken directly from

111
00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:12,959
taped interviews of witnesses involved

112
00:04:15,910 --> 00:04:15,040
and there are witness reports and quotes

113
00:04:18,069 --> 00:04:15,920
throughout

114
00:04:19,590 --> 00:04:18,079
a common description was of a bright

115
00:04:21,430 --> 00:04:19,600
light in the front of the object

116
00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:21,440
that would light up the area underneath

117
00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:24,000
it and one witness said it got so bright

118
00:04:28,550 --> 00:04:26,720
that he had to look away one report was

119
00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:28,560
of the object lighting up the woods like

120
00:04:31,990 --> 00:04:29,680
they were on fire

121
00:04:33,510 --> 00:04:32,000
and then rising up to 300 feet and

122
00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:33,520
taking off to the east

123
00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:36,720
real fast spiegel investigated the area

124
00:04:41,350 --> 00:04:39,360
and saw no evidence of a landing all of

125
00:04:43,430 --> 00:04:41,360
the witnesses described hearing no

126
00:04:44,390 --> 00:04:43,440
noise from the object except one who

127
00:04:47,110 --> 00:04:44,400
said it made a

128
00:04:49,270 --> 00:04:47,120
sh type of noise when it turned

129
00:04:51,510 --> 00:04:49,280
descriptions of the object's size

130
00:04:53,030 --> 00:04:51,520
range from the size of an average car to

131
00:04:55,110 --> 00:04:53,040
a twin-engine cessna

132
00:04:56,790 --> 00:04:55,120
it reportedly hovered for periods of up

133
00:04:59,189 --> 00:04:56,800
to 45 minutes

134
00:05:00,230 --> 00:04:59,199
on several occasions officers pursued

135
00:05:02,310 --> 00:05:00,240
the object

136
00:05:04,629 --> 00:05:02,320
ron thompson reported that he was off

137
00:05:05,590 --> 00:05:04,639
duty but on alert on friday night after

138
00:05:07,670 --> 00:05:05,600
nine pm

139
00:05:09,749 --> 00:05:07,680
when he spotted a craft and then chased

140
00:05:10,629 --> 00:05:09,759
it he caught up with it and it hovered

141
00:05:12,790 --> 00:05:10,639
above him

142
00:05:14,790 --> 00:05:12,800
he got out of his car reached into it

143
00:05:16,790 --> 00:05:14,800
and blinked his headlights twice

144
00:05:19,029 --> 00:05:16,800
according to him the craft blinked its

145
00:05:21,110 --> 00:05:19,039
headlight twice in response

146
00:05:22,870 --> 00:05:21,120
in addition to the light up front

147
00:05:23,670 --> 00:05:22,880
thompson noticed the light on the back

148
00:05:25,749 --> 00:05:23,680
as well

149
00:05:27,830 --> 00:05:25,759
the craft moved off and thompson

150
00:05:29,270 --> 00:05:27,840
continued his pursuit until he lost it

151
00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:29,280
behind some trees

152
00:05:33,189 --> 00:05:32,000
he said he got to within 100 yards of it

153
00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:33,199
and that it was unlike

154
00:05:37,670 --> 00:05:35,840
any conventional man-made aircraft

155
00:05:39,830 --> 00:05:37,680
meanwhile spiegel was told by

156
00:05:41,029 --> 00:05:39,840
robeson county sheriff's office director

157
00:05:43,830 --> 00:05:41,039
of communications

158
00:05:45,670 --> 00:05:43,840
jay freeman that an faa official at

159
00:05:47,670 --> 00:05:45,680
granite field in fayetteville

160
00:05:49,590 --> 00:05:47,680
had offered the suggestion that the

161
00:05:51,350 --> 00:05:49,600
sightings on thursday had been of a

162
00:05:53,830 --> 00:05:51,360
boeing 737

163
00:05:55,510 --> 00:05:53,840
during a series of training flights as

164
00:05:57,830 --> 00:05:55,520
for the sightings on friday

165
00:05:59,909 --> 00:05:57,840
once the report started coming in no one

166
00:06:00,469 --> 00:05:59,919
had been able to contact the faa

167
00:06:03,029 --> 00:06:00,479
official

168
00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:03,039
who had made the suggestion spiegel met

169
00:06:06,309 --> 00:06:04,800
up with thompson in the hopes of seeing

170
00:06:08,469 --> 00:06:06,319
the object for himself

171
00:06:10,710 --> 00:06:08,479
it was 10 pm and they drove through

172
00:06:12,710 --> 00:06:10,720
areas where sightings had been reported

173
00:06:14,469 --> 00:06:12,720
they heard reports from other officers

174
00:06:15,029 --> 00:06:14,479
over the radio and moved towards the

175
00:06:18,550 --> 00:06:15,039
area

176
00:06:20,550 --> 00:06:18,560
then at 11 54 pm they saw a large light

177
00:06:22,070 --> 00:06:20,560
that seemed to be approaching them as it

178
00:06:24,390 --> 00:06:22,080
increased in brightness

179
00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:24,400
they stopped the car and heard no noise

180
00:06:27,909 --> 00:06:26,479
but spiegel notes that they were about

181
00:06:29,749 --> 00:06:27,919
500 yards from it

182
00:06:31,270 --> 00:06:29,759
and might not have heard noise even if

183
00:06:33,430 --> 00:06:31,280
it was an aircraft

184
00:06:34,309 --> 00:06:33,440
the light then turned red and started

185
00:06:36,309 --> 00:06:34,319
pulsating

186
00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:36,319
then spiegel saw another red light on

187
00:06:39,590 --> 00:06:37,680
the other side of the road

188
00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:39,600
moving in the same direction and

189
00:06:43,189 --> 00:06:41,360
pulsating at the same rate

190
00:06:45,029 --> 00:06:43,199
spiegel wrote that he still wasn't

191
00:06:48,150 --> 00:06:45,039
impressed or convinced

192
00:06:49,510 --> 00:06:48,160
then at 1 30 am on saturday as they were

193
00:06:51,670 --> 00:06:49,520
driving near pembroke

194
00:06:53,510 --> 00:06:51,680
they got a call over the radio that a

195
00:06:54,390 --> 00:06:53,520
v-shaped craft was headed in their

196
00:06:56,550 --> 00:06:54,400
direction

197
00:06:57,749 --> 00:06:56,560
they soon saw a bright white light

198
00:07:01,510 --> 00:06:57,759
moving slowly

199
00:07:02,070 --> 00:07:01,520
15 to 20 feet above the trees 500 to 600

200
00:07:04,469 --> 00:07:02,080
feet away

201
00:07:06,790 --> 00:07:04,479
from them they stopped and watched as

202
00:07:08,950 --> 00:07:06,800
the object moved slowly to the north

203
00:07:10,629 --> 00:07:08,960
stopping and starting never going more

204
00:07:13,110 --> 00:07:10,639
than 20 miles per hour

205
00:07:14,950 --> 00:07:13,120
freeman and reporter paul doherty joined

206
00:07:16,150 --> 00:07:14,960
them and verified that they were seeing

207
00:07:18,550 --> 00:07:16,160
the same thing

208
00:07:20,550 --> 00:07:18,560
the car's engines and lights were off

209
00:07:21,670 --> 00:07:20,560
the craft stopped and its light became

210
00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:21,680
intensely bright

211
00:07:26,950 --> 00:07:24,400
reminding spiegel of a magnesium flare

212
00:07:29,110 --> 00:07:26,960
it hovered silently for over a minute

213
00:07:30,230 --> 00:07:29,120
a car with three deputies had got to a

214
00:07:32,469 --> 00:07:30,240
good vantage point

215
00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:32,479
and radioed that they too were observing

216
00:07:37,909 --> 00:07:33,520
the craft

217
00:07:38,710 --> 00:07:37,919
the flash of an eye and began the

218
00:07:41,029 --> 00:07:38,720
pulsate

219
00:07:43,270 --> 00:07:41,039
it moved slowly and haltingly to the

220
00:07:45,830 --> 00:07:43,280
south and the observers watched it

221
00:07:46,790 --> 00:07:45,840
for around 6 minutes until it was gone

222
00:07:48,469 --> 00:07:46,800
from view

223
00:07:49,990 --> 00:07:48,479
there were more sightings and more

224
00:07:52,710 --> 00:07:50,000
pursuits after that

225
00:07:53,189 --> 00:07:52,720
in his report spiegel says he concluded

226
00:07:55,029 --> 00:07:53,199
that the

227
00:07:58,150 --> 00:07:55,039
object could not have been any type of

228
00:07:59,909 --> 00:07:58,160
airplane it was very strange indeed

229
00:08:02,230 --> 00:07:59,919
despite the large number of police

230
00:08:04,309 --> 00:08:02,240
witnesses and civilian witnesses

231
00:08:05,350 --> 00:08:04,319
this case has not received a great deal

232
00:08:07,830 --> 00:08:05,360
of attention

233
00:08:08,869 --> 00:08:07,840
it lives in the memory of ron thompson

234
00:08:11,350 --> 00:08:08,879
lee spiegel

235
00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:11,360
the many other witnesses and in a file

236
00:08:24,830 --> 00:08:12,960
cabinet in new mexico

237
00:08:31,460 --> 00:08:26,300
story